(DNS?) Issue with "auto proxy discovery" on Mac

kaliko · 2025-01-23T12:20:46+00:00

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kaliko

Issue: Safari, Office / OneDrive and other applications have trouble to connect to internet addresses. Often the requests time out, sometimes they complete after e.g. 50 seconds.

Reproducible: other work colleagues (living in different cantons) with internet provider sunrise have the same issue => it is not a problem with my machine or my network

Setup to reproduce:

Mac, connected via wifi (cable works fine)
“auto proxy discovery” (wifi settings on Mac) on
use Safari to open a website (e.g. chrome works, as it likely ignores the setting, but e.g. office applications have the same issue)

Workaround: disable “auto proxy discovery” => it immediately starts working. (this workaround is not practical for our company laptops, as “auto proxy discovery” is activated automatically again after deactivation.

It would be really great if sunrise could fix this.

Xydocq

hello kaliko

did you try to delete the wifi connection on your Mac and setting it up again?

Daniele_Sunrise

kaliko The autodetection of a proxy on the Mac has nothing to do with the modem. If this option is activated, the browser will try to open a link to the PAC file, which will probably lead to your company. Either you contact your IT department to be able to start another network environment without a proxy, or you use an alternative browser without a proxy URL. There is nothing we can do as a provider.

Greetings
Daniele

Daniele_Sunrise

kaliko I see that a modem exchange is taking place. At the same time, I have sent your request to the modem team, asking them to check the error pattern. As soon as I have received feedback, I will get back to you.

Greetings
Daniele

kaliko

Xydocq yes, I can reproduce the issue also with different laptops, chances that this is a problem that can be solved on my maschine are small. most lilely this is a „bug“ of the connectbox 3.

kaliko

Daniele_Sunrise Hi, thanks a lot for your reply! Please note:

This has nothing to do with my company laptop. It is reproducible on any Mac when enabling “auto proxy discovery”. => try it. I also have “non-company” Laptops at home, and they have the same issue, when “auto proxy detection” is enabled.
“Auto proxy discovery” comes without a proxy pac URL => that is the meaning of “discovery” => there is no URL provided. This “discovery” request is not handled correctly by either the connect box or the sunrise network. (what you probably mean is “Automatic proxy configuration” where you provide an URL, but they are not the same thing!)

I try to attach a picture of the two proxy configuration options.

Daniele_Sunrise

kaliko Please excuse me, I really misunderstood something. After researching on the internet, it is possible to add exclusions where the auto proxy does not apply. Can you please test this?

https://support.apple.com/en-mz/guide/mac-help/mchlp25912/mac

You can also choose to bypass proxy settings for specific computers on the internet (hosts) and segments of the internet (domains) by adding the address of the host or domain in the “Bypass proxy settings for these Hosts & Domains” field. This might be useful if you want to make sure you’re receiving information directly from the host or domain and not information that’s cached on the proxy server.

To bypass a single domain, enter the domain name—for example, apple.com.
To bypass all websites on a domain, use an asterisk before the domain name—for example, *apple.com.
To bypass a specific part of a domain, specify each part—for example, store.apple.com.

https://www.mac-help.com/threads/macbook-pro-failing-to-get-to-websites.225624/

Unfortunately I don’t have any other solutions, as the modem doesn’t provide any proxies, so it must be the device. It seems to work with Windows.

Greetings
Daniele

kaliko

Thanks for trying to help, it is really appreciated. I am also sure that you can not solve the issue and neither can I.

What I am sure is that if a sunrise network engineer would reproduce the issue, they could also see where the request gets stuck. Look at the very straight forward parameters for reproduction:

Be behind connect box 3 and use Sunrise as an ISP: it works when I am outside of this context, it works when I use my sunrise mobile plan to tether, it works in the office, in the internet cafe, everywhere else.
It is reproducible by different people: all with connect box 3 and sunrise as ISP and only when they are in this setup.
It doesn’t matter if it is wifi or LAN, I first thought so, but it does not matter, if I enable “auto proxy discovery” on the lan connection it stops working.
It also may not matter if it is Windows or Mac, however I could not test that, it is possible though that it is a problem only with the discovery requests that Macs use.

=> this is an issue with the connect box 3 and/or the sunrise network. Thus, Sunrise can either truly try to fix this, but needs to get it to a network engineer or leave it as it is and cause issues that for most people are super hard to understand or detect and will make them work around it, while paying for a service that does not work correctly.

Xydocq

kaliko

My wild guess would be, it is a DNS issue. The DNS Servers are set by Sunrise and can’t be changed on the Connect Box 3.

Do you have other network appliances, like a NAS, on your network. Or is it just the Connect Box 3?

kaliko

I use directly connect box 3 nothing else. And yes, proxy discovery protocols (WPAD) use DHCP and DNS to work and it is very likely that there is some config in sunrise DNS servers that prohibits this from working correctly.

Xydocq

kaliko

You should be able to set the DNS servers on your network connection manually. Just to try and see if it will work when you are connected to the Connect Box 3.

kaliko

Xydocq I did. I set the google DNS servers, but it does not help. And it makes sense. It is quite clear that the issue are the auto proxy discovery protocol requests and it is not unlikely that they already are blocked at the connect box.
And again, I have no where else this problem, no public network, no 5G tethering, no issues at my parents using their wifi, etc. etc. I also can reproduce it with non-company laptops, they are just plain normal of the shelf laptops, enabling “auto proxy discovery” produces the issue when being connect box 3 / sunrise.

Xydocq

kaliko I don’t have any apple hardware so I am not able to see for myself.

Your Connect Box 3 Fibre is set to use IPv4, right?

So here’s another thing I would try: Log on to your Connect Box 3 Fibre. Go to Advanced Settings > Security > DMZ Enable DMZ with 192.168.1.2. Reboot the Connect Box 3 after applying the settings.

Use the LAN connection on your Laptop and set it to be a static connection:
IP: 192.168.1.2
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1
Primary DNS: 62.2.17.61 (A Sunrise DNS-Server), you can also try a different DNS

DMZ should allow a non filtered Internet connection for testing. If the issue still exists it might be a much bigger problem then the Connect Box 3 Fibre.

If the issue gets fixed… more to come.

kaliko

Daniele_Sunrise thank you very much for following up. I would be very interested if they can reproduce it.

About the modem exchange: I remember that quite some time ago someone told me (or I was informed) that there will be a modem switch, but this is several months ago and nothing happened => are you referring to a more recent process initiated?

Daniele_Sunrise

kaliko I just saw that the modem replacement is really from October 2024 and did not take place. Before I can initiate the replacement again, could you please remove your Netgear AC1900 from your network and re-enable our WIFI on the modem and test it? We assume that the cause of the error lies with your Netgear, as you are using the WIFI from there.

Greetings
Daniele

kaliko

Daniele_Sunrise I am using the Connect Box 3 Wifi (the netgear wifi is only used where the connect box 3 wifi is very weak, due to walls and distance to the box), but mostly I use directly the one from the connect box.

additionally: the issue is not restricted to a wifi. The problem behaves the same, whether I am in the Netgear wifi or in the ConnectBox Wifi. In both cases the temporary disablement of the auto proxy discovery fixes the problem. using a LAN connection via the Netgear router behaves also the same: without auto proxy discovery it works, enabling it, it does not work (so on LAN I don’t have the problem, as there the option “auto proxy discovery” is not enforced).

All that said: what I can try is turn off the Netgear Router and see if the problem persists or if the existence of the netgear router is causing it. I will try tonight.

However, I have colleagues that don’t have a Netgear Router (they might have another additional router) but have the exact same issue. => the issue has really nothing to do with my hardware or my network.

Again, reproducing the issue using connect box 3 fibre and an apple laptop with “auto proxy discovery” on would likely immediately proof that this issue is not limited to my setup.

Daniele_Sunrise

kaliko I have submitted your request to the modem team. They will include this error in the testing. Until the testing is done and the error could be reproduced and a fix is released, we ask you to use the workaround.

Greetings
Daniele

Xydocq

hello kaliko

I assume your Netgear Router is set to act as access point?

If that is the case, try to switch it back to router mode. The settings you should use for WAN-Connection should look like this:
Type: Static
IP: 192.168.1.5
Subnet: 255.255.255.0
Gateway: 192.168.1.1
DNS: 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4

The LAN IP on the Netgear Router needs to be different then the one used on the Connect Box 3. So it could be 192.168.5.0/24. Just make sure the third octet is not a 1.

Resources connected to the Connect Box 3 directly will still be available. But devices connecting thru the Netgear Router won’t be available for them.

You might also have to create a unique wifi-network.

The Netgear Router sure doesn’t cause the problem, but maybe it can be used to fix it.

kaliko

Daniele_Sunrise I turned of my Netgear Router and I can still reproduce the issue.
Just to explain what using the workaround means: the workaround currently is to every 10 minutes open the settings and turn off “auto proxy discovery” and when forgetting it Sharepoint files can not be saved (not realising it may need to data loss, etc.).

Thanks again for following up, it at least partially restored my trust in Sunrise even if there is not yet a solution, it helps that someone cares.

kaliko

Xydocq I never replied to this, sorry.

my setup is as you describe. I once tried to configure the netgear router to have one single network, but either the netgear did not like it or the connectbox did not support that setup in a stable way. (it worked for a while, then I had to restart the netgear).

so I switched back to two separate networks, which is a bid sad, but a small inconvenience.

Xydocq

I got myself a MacBook Air to see if I can reproduce the error on the Connect Box 3 HFC. The results are pretty similar to what you described.

First of all I would like to share the setup of my home-network:

It might look weird but I assure you, it’s not. To run my own firewall is essential to me, I need it for the site-2-site VPN and other security issues. My own hardware is also limited to 1Gbit/s so I wasn’t able to use the 2.5Gbit/s. The cable from the Connect Box 3 to my firewall is around 15 to 20 meters long. That’s the reason there is this 2.5Gbit/s switch between the Connect Box 3 and my firewall. It allows me to use the 2.5Gbit/s connection on one computer if needed. The Connect Box 3 runs on Router Mode and the firewall is set as DMZ.

Now back to the auto proxy discovery. As you mentioned the WLAN connection on the Connect Box 3 (WLAN 0) has major issues. I noticed the following, web-pages take forever to load if they load at all. Once a site was loaded a refresh was possible with no issues. Clearing the browser history lead back to the issue at first.

Turning off auto proxy discovery solved the issue right away.

Connecting the MacBook to WLAN 2. Managed by the personal firewall showed no issues at all. The DNS-Settings of the Connect Box 3 are overwritten by the settings on the firewall. Turning auto proxy discovery on or off showed no difference. The response was snappy, no matter if a site was loaded for the first time or if history was cleared.

The solution for your problem would be what I mentioned in the prior post.

kaliko

Xydocq thanks for confirming the issue, while I love computer science and networking, the times where I engineered my home network with mail server, fire wall, etc. etc. are over. I am now at the plug-and-play stage and this is what I can expect from a provider like sunrise. Another (Joelhasissues) also confirmed the issue and I am quite convinced that Sunrise will be able to find the issue (I am quite bullish on the DNS issue thesis).